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 NZAFTA sanctioned GRAND PRIX SERIES 2015. RULES.

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Dajo



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PostSubject: NZAFTA sanctioned GRAND PRIX SERIES 2015. RULES.   Tue Dec 23, 2014 9:35 am



______________________________________

NZAFTA sanctioned GP series

Breif Introduction
The GP series is a points based series of competition shoots, where the highest cumulative score over xxx rounds is named the winner in that class, with places 2nd and below based on respective points.

Format
Two classes will be catered for, PCP, and Springer, with no difference or advantage between HP and 12fpe. IE: All pcps regardless of power class will be shooting in the 'PCP class'
All GP series points rounds will consist of a 50 shot match, where a GP round is being held in conjunction with a match consisting of more than 50 shots, a nominated (by the match director) section of the course totalling 50 shots, and including the required percentage of positionals, will count towards GP placings and points for that round
Total points counted towards Final GP scores will be from the shooters best 4 scores out of the 7 rounds available to shoot, allowing entrants to either drop lowest scores, or miss a round(s) completely, while still retaining the 4 scoring rounds.
Final placings will be tallied at the completion of the Final round, which will be held in conjunction with the NZAFTA NZ Nationals.
Points will be awarded per round as follows, and are for the class shot in on the day:

1st : 25 points
2nd : 18 points
3rd : 15 points
4th : 12 points
5th : 10 points
6th : 8 points
7th : 6 points
8th : 4 points
9th : 2 points
10th : 1 point

REGISTRATION AND FEES
• A one off registration fee per entrant of $40, payable to the NZAFTA (details of which will be emailed to each entrant on registration) prior to the start of the season, this goes towards administration costs, end of series trophies, and any leftovers will be put into the prizegiving for GP entrants, leaving a zero balance.
• Every hosted round will have its own entry fee, payable to and at the discretion of the host club, relevant to the event.

RULES
• All GP series rounds will follow the NZAFTA comprehensive rules
• GP series rounds may be held in conjunction with another shoot by the host club (ie club champs) but must consist of a 50 target match, or a nominated section of 50 targets from a larger match.
• All GP series rounds must contain the percentages of positional targets as laid out in the NZAFTA comprehensive rules
• When run in conjunction with another event, the event organiser must make provision to be able to also tally GP entrants scores to provide GP placings for that event.
All GP series entrants scores must be forwarded to the NZAFTA competition secretary following the conclusion of the match.
• A GP series leaderboard will be kept up to date, and posted on the NZAFTA forum by the competition secretary, showing all entrants, rounds shot, placings and points per round, and total points to date per entrant.
• Final scores counted toward Final GP scores will be from the shooters best 4 scores from the rounds shot, allowing entrants to drop lowest scores or drop rounds completely while retaining the 4 scoring rounds.

• Each club can run up to two GP rounds, with proposed dates forwarded to the NZAFTA competition secretary. In this instance it is at the discretion of the competition secretary as to whether the 2nd date is required to complete the amount of rounds needed for the series, or for fair dispersment of the locations.

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Pauly5

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PostSubject: Re: NZAFTA sanctioned GRAND PRIX SERIES 2015. RULES.   Tue Dec 23, 2014 4:38 pm

So, can a competitor in this series shoot at only four events and still qualify?
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Dajo



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PostSubject: Re: NZAFTA sanctioned GRAND PRIX SERIES 2015. RULES.   Tue Dec 23, 2014 4:45 pm

Yes,

There are Seven rounds which can be shot, only the top four scores (that is, points accrued through finishing position in the rounds) or your best four rounds are tallied and found as your highest score. You may choose to shoot just one round and your points would go through. You have the potential to get 200 as a final score so ther more rounds shot, better chance of increasing your finishing score.

Dave.
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wyseyes



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PostSubject: Re: NZAFTA sanctioned GRAND PRIX SERIES 2015. RULES.   Fri Dec 26, 2014 7:38 pm

What is the procedure for determining final places when two or more shooters have the same scores?
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Dajo



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PostSubject: Re: NZAFTA sanctioned GRAND PRIX SERIES 2015. RULES.   Sat Dec 27, 2014 8:17 am

wyseyes wrote:
What is the procedure for determining final places when two or more shooters have the same scores?



As per the WFTF Rules as adapted to NZAFTA rules 2014. First three places shoot off for final placings. Any positions equal on points after that share the appropriate placings.

DaveJ.
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wyseyes



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PostSubject: Re: NZAFTA sanctioned GRAND PRIX SERIES 2015. RULES.   Sat Dec 27, 2014 9:54 am

A shoot off may not be possible (at the last GP event) if one of the tied shooters is not present. Maybe that shooter got their tied score within the first 6 shoots, and haven't attended the 7th. Remember, there is no "GP Final" match.

Those old rules aren't relevant in a points accrued system. A better system for determining overall position in the series Is required
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Dajo



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PostSubject: Re: NZAFTA sanctioned GRAND PRIX SERIES 2015. RULES.   Sat Dec 27, 2014 10:10 am

Good point wyseyes. We'll have a look at it but really, unless I had an accrued points tally of 100, I think I'd be at the last shoot. We will look at it very soon.

DaveJ.
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X2



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PostSubject: GP points system   Sun Dec 28, 2014 6:05 pm

Seeing as the rules are not set in concrete yet, I think the points as listed favour 1st place to much

eg Shooter 1 has 2 wins and 2 6th`s = 66 points

Shooter 2 has 3 2nd`s and 1 4th = 66 points
I would have thought shooter 2 was the better shooter
You could be only 1 point behind the winning score but 7 points behind
My suggestion is either reduce points to 10 for 1st down to 1 for 10th so anyone is more likely to win with good consistant scores and is more likely to still be alive for the last shoot.
OR ( maybe simple) just count what your scores are 48/50 ie points out of 200
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Dajo



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PostSubject: Re: NZAFTA sanctioned GRAND PRIX SERIES 2015. RULES.   Tue Dec 30, 2014 12:45 pm

wyseyes wrote:
A shoot off may not be possible (at the last GP event) if one of the tied shooters is not present. Maybe that shooter got their tied score within the first 6 shoots, and haven't attended the 7th. Remember, there is no "GP Final" match.

Those old rules aren't relevant in a points accrued system.   A better system for determining overall position in the series Is required


Hi Wyseyes,

in that situation, with a draw and one shooter not present a count back of the highest positions attained would be taken. The shooter with the highest average position will win.

DaveJ.
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Dajo



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PostSubject: Re: NZAFTA sanctioned GRAND PRIX SERIES 2015. RULES.   Tue Dec 30, 2014 12:53 pm

X2 wrote:
Seeing as the rules are not set in concrete yet, I think the  points as listed favour 1st place to much

eg  Shooter 1  has 2 wins and  2  6th`s  =  66 points

     Shooter 2  has 3  2nd`s and  1  4th  =  66  points
I would have thought shooter 2 was the better shooter
You could be only 1 point behind the winning score but 7 points behind
My suggestion is either reduce points  to  10 for 1st down to 1  for 10th so anyone is more likely to win with good consistant  scores and is more likely to still be alive for the last shoot.
OR  ( maybe simple) just count what your scores are  48/50 ie points out of 200


Hi X2,

We're going to leave the points system as is this time around. Anyone who gets second usually feels like they've scored seven less points anyway.

DaveJ.
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wyseyes



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PostSubject: Re: NZAFTA sanctioned GRAND PRIX SERIES 2015. RULES.   Tue Dec 30, 2014 1:42 pm

wyseyes wrote:

A shoot off may not be possible (at the last GP event) if one of the tied shooters is not present. Maybe that shooter got their tied score within the first 6 shoots, and haven't attended the 7th. Remember, there is no "GP Final" match.

Those old rules aren't relevant in a points accrued system. A better system for determining overall position in the series Is required


"in that situation, with a draw and one shooter not present a count back of the highest positions attained would be taken. The shooter with the highest average position will win."

You'll have to explain this a bit better, so we all understand. To me, if two shooters are tied on the same final score, both will have the same average score.
Example - if both have scores from two 1st place, and two 2nd places (which should be 2 x 25 + 2 x 18 = 86). Average over 4 shoots is 86/4 = 21.5. This count back will not be decisive enough to determine placing.

As for highest platings, you're saying that if one shooter places as above, shooter 1 should win since they had 2 x 1st place wins? Over 3 x 2nd place wins? Not really fair or equitable. The points gained by one shooter not ony depend on their own score on the day, but on who else is present. I'm not that good a shot, but if I attend a shoot where I know Brian and Neil are NOT shooting, then my chances of gaining top points are hugely increased. This is the crux of it, the proposed points system isn't fair because a shooters points should ONLY depend on his own score, not anyone else's.

I can see this points calculation method failing, and there is not enough thought gone into the proposed points system. There are too many gaps, too many 'what if this happens' scenarios which have not been investigated, to see if the method is fair and equitable.

I would reason that a shoot off should be discarded, there shouldn't be two methods for determining final places. Shoot offs only work for Finals matches, not points series. Imagine what would happen at the last series match if neither/none of the top placed shooters are present?
A valid scoring//shot-per-shot comparison needs to be made between tied points shooters. One of the most obvious is keeping track of not only total score per match (score, not points), and also keep track of standing and kneeling. There needs to be some differential method of looking back over the scores and determining one shooter shot better than another. Even this may not be enough, as it is still easy for two shooters to match standing and kneeling shots within each match. Especially since there are only a maximum of 3 standing and 3 kneeling targets per match.

This requires accurate scoring records be kept. This is not difficult.
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Dajo



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PostSubject: Re: NZAFTA sanctioned GRAND PRIX SERIES 2015. RULES.   Tue Dec 30, 2014 2:30 pm

Of course, this is assuming that there is indeed a complete equal score right through. This is also why it is best to attend as many shoots a possible so this situation does not arise and the spin offs for people to actually not attend or attend according to who's shooting and who's not would require prior knowledge. All these are variables and is up to the shooter to come to terms with as only he /she can make the decision when and where to shoot with all the mentioned variables part of the competition.

The Grand Prix Series scoring will be scored the same as all club qualifiers and National Finals have been scored and the full records should be made available as and when necessary if required.

DaveJ.
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shooter1



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PostSubject: Re: NZAFTA sanctioned GRAND PRIX SERIES 2015. RULES.   Tue Dec 30, 2014 3:45 pm

I agree with Michael but think the 25 points for the winner is too much, 20 would be better as it would be in line with the points below 1st place.ie

Shooter 1 placings.. 20,18,12,8= 58 points

Shooter 2 placings.. 20,15,12,10=57 points

In case of a tie a count back of standing followed by kneeling over all shoots attended would find a winner.
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Dajo



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PostSubject: Re: NZAFTA sanctioned GRAND PRIX SERIES 2015. RULES.   Wed Dec 31, 2014 8:05 am

Yes Brian,

The goal would obviously be to get a first position under the belt and 25 points after all in every shooting competition there is only one winner, for first place. The rest are also rans. So we're going to leave it at 25 points for a first place. As there can be only one winner at each round, position attained would be the only count back criteria other than to make sure, if your in with a chance, to be at the last round in case a shoot off is necessary.

DaveJ.
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shaqa

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PostSubject: Re: NZAFTA sanctioned GRAND PRIX SERIES 2015. RULES.   Wed Dec 31, 2014 12:12 pm

Dave
Will shooters be required to pre-enter before the day of the shoot or can they just rock up on the day and shoot? Or will this be up to the host club to decide?
Obviously pre-entering gives the host club time to sort catering and certificates etc.
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(pink)MIST

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PostSubject: Re: NZAFTA sanctioned GRAND PRIX SERIES 2015. RULES.   Wed Dec 31, 2014 1:27 pm

Hi Neil
That'd be at the discretion of the host club, I know waikato did a prepaid entry at their hosted nats and that worked for them, nhagc on the other hand did a turn up on the day approach for their ft champs (which was a qual round last year in conjunction) and that worked for them.

The GP series certificates will be preprinted for positions (without shooters names of course:) ) and supplied to the host club prior , as we will have a closed list of entrants, so we know how many positions to print for as a maximum.
If the hosting club was running a round in conjunction with an event of their own, any Certs, medals, or trophies relevant to that event they may want to organise and a prepaid entry might be their choice for that.

I'd envisage each club would post details as they did in the past, when , where , how much , etc, and if they're opting for prepaid entries or on the day ones.


Brett

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wyseyes



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PostSubject: Re: NZAFTA sanctioned GRAND PRIX SERIES 2015. RULES.   Wed Dec 31, 2014 9:45 pm

A closed list of entrants? Did I miss something?
I know registration is happening now, (and is there an updating list of confirmed shooters yet?), is this only for a fixed time? The way you stated it above, you plan to close this List, and is read that there will be no more allowed to enter.
So why wasn't this information posted when registration opened? When is this cutoff date? Must be soon, before the first shoot?
What happens with late entrants? Why can't they enter, aren't they allowed to compete? Surely later entrants can still have a chance at winning the series if they score highly in any 4 matches? So why close this list?
I'm not sure much of this has been thought through enough. I see too many holes.
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shooter1



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PostSubject: Re: NZAFTA sanctioned GRAND PRIX SERIES 2015. RULES.   Wed Dec 31, 2014 9:58 pm

Brett

I was not aware of a cut of date for the series, could you please MAKE PUBLIC FOR ALL TO SEE a copy of the so called date stating when it was made public, where IT WAS ADVERTISED and the cut of date .
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(pink)MIST

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PostSubject: Re: NZAFTA sanctioned GRAND PRIX SERIES 2015. RULES.   Wed Dec 31, 2014 10:00 pm

In the original post of this thread,

REGISTRATION AND FEES
• A one off registration fee per entrant of $40, payable to the NZAFTA (details of which will be emailed to each entrant on registration) prior to the start of the season

So at the start of the season registrations would close, hence a closed list of entrants from that date.

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shooter1



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PostSubject: Re: NZAFTA sanctioned GRAND PRIX SERIES 2015. RULES.   Wed Dec 31, 2014 10:07 pm

CONFUSED!!!

Brett

Neil asked if one could just rock up and shoot or would they have to pre enter, your reply...that'd be up to the discretion to the host club!

Then you say..you will have a closed list of entrants... So exactly what are you saying?

Is it up to the host club or is there a cut of date?
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(pink)MIST

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PostSubject: Re: NZAFTA sanctioned GRAND PRIX SERIES 2015. RULES.   Wed Dec 31, 2014 10:16 pm

Registration for the entry into the series would close at the start of the season (first round)

Turning up to any given round is the responsibility and decision of the entrant, whether the host club for any given round is taking entries into the event they are hosting on the day, or doing a prepaid entry like wagc did for the Nats is at the discretion of the host club for that round.

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shooter1



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PostSubject: Re: NZAFTA sanctioned GRAND PRIX SERIES 2015. RULES.   Wed Dec 31, 2014 10:28 pm

(pink)MIST wrote:
Registration for the entry into the series would close at the start of the season (first round)

Turning up to any given round is the responsibility and decision of the entrant, whether the host club for any given round is taking entries into the event they are hosting on the day, or doing a prepaid entry like wagc did for the Nats is at the discretion of the host club for that round.



So if entries close at the first round how can a club have discretion to let them enter at a later date? and if they accept an entry at any round I presume the $40 series fee would still have to be paid!
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PostSubject: Re: NZAFTA sanctioned GRAND PRIX SERIES 2015. RULES.   Wed Dec 31, 2014 10:50 pm

Entry into the GP series closes at the start of the season.

Clubs have the discretion to allow on the day payment to their hosted round, or prepaid entry fee/range fee for their hosted round. This is the fee/charge the club would charge for shooting their particular event, its not a fee for the registration of an entrant into the series itself.

ie : Andy has paid gp series registration prior to start of season, so is registered as an entrant into the series

TARC hosts a round with a $10 range fee, Andy turns up, pays the $10 range fee, shoots, wins, points recorded and sent through to Dave by TARC,

NHAGC hosts a round in conjunction their club champs, posts details for shoot which include prepaying the range fee for the shoot, and charges $20. Andy prepays the days range fee, turns up, shoots..........

TARC allowed people to pay the days RANGE FEES on the day, whereas NHAGC chose at their discretion to do a prepaid system to allow a better budget prior to hosting the event.


I hope thats a bit clearer to understand, if not I can call you in a couple days, sometimes it can be easier to actually have a conversation Smile

Right now tho im off, New years eve, hope you guys are off to do something as well, if so enjoy yourselves, and stay safe.
if not, happy New years.

Brett


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wyseyes



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PostSubject: Re: NZAFTA sanctioned GRAND PRIX SERIES 2015. RULES.   Wed Dec 31, 2014 11:00 pm

And a new shooter arriving into the country on March? Plain bad luck I suppose?

Can you explain the reasoning and benefit of closing this list. What if any downfalls are there if it isn't closed?
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AlexW



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PostSubject: Re: NZAFTA sanctioned GRAND PRIX SERIES 2015. RULES.   Sat Jan 10, 2015 2:33 pm

Any idea of what the range fees are going to be? The GP entrants fee is perfectly reasonable to pay for certificate and trophies, but then to also charge an extra $20 for a club-type shoot is a bit pricey, especially if entrants go to 4+ shoots, combined with travelling expenses etc.
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