HomeHome  RegisterRegister  Log inLog in  

Share | 
 

 2015 NATIONALS - should it be a multi-day event!

View previous topic View next topic Go down 
AuthorMessage
robcawood



Posts : 382
Join date : 2014-05-25
Age : 47
Location : Auckland

PostSubject: 2015 NATIONALS - should it be a multi-day event!   Fri Jun 12, 2015 7:43 am

Hi All

A number of suggestions have been put forward to the BOG regarding improving the quality of shooting in NZ. One of these suggestions is to make the Nationals a 2 day event to give shooters the necessary experience of shooting a multi-day event to better prepare them for shooting at the World Champs.

The proposal is to shoot Springers and PCP's on both days, i.e. the Nationals then get shot over 100 instead of 50 targets. The course can be changed after day 1 so the 2nd days course will be different. Shooters will need to decide on whether they shoot Springer or PCP.

This post is to gauge how much support there is for this idea to be implemented for this years Nationals. Some shooters might have already made travel arrangements to attend only the 1 day of the shoot and others might be already planning to have a serious attempt at both classes.

If this format change was voted in favour of, it does complicate the final round of the GP Series to some degree, i.e. do we separate the final GP round out from the Nationals OR do we use the last day of the Nationals as the final of the GP series. This would also need to be voted on. If separated out we could ask WAGC if they would be keen on hosting the final round of the GP series and to come up with a date.

So if there is enough support we can put the idea to a vote amongst the club representatives OR we can defer the changing of the format for Nationals to the AGM to be voted on for the 2016 Nationals.

The intention here is to make this as democratic as possible, so this is your opportunity to have a say before it goes to a vote.

Depending on the feedback here we can put this to a vote at the end of June. That gives each of the clubs 3 weekends to discuss the issue at their club shoots.


Regards

Rob

_________________
NHAGC President 2017
Back to top Go down
magpie



Posts : 41
Join date : 2014-10-16
Age : 52
Location : orewa

PostSubject: Re: 2015 NATIONALS - should it be a multi-day event!   Fri Jun 12, 2015 8:22 am

ok I start off with a question or two

how many people are planning on attending the world champs ?

I understand the need for training. but if the numbers aren't great , then is there a need to change the format of nationals

I understood the nats were a two event with springers and pcp shot on different days

and as for the GP series I plan to shot both days

with the sport struggling to find members I think making a shooter choose only one format to shoot in the nats is counter productive

just my 2 cents worth
Back to top Go down
robcawood



Posts : 382
Join date : 2014-05-25
Age : 47
Location : Auckland

PostSubject: Re: 2015 NATIONALS - should it be a multi-day event!   Fri Jun 12, 2015 8:37 am

Hi Scott

Yep, all very valid points... that was the idea behind the post.

Rob

_________________
NHAGC President 2017
Back to top Go down
Carlostrophe



Posts : 184
Join date : 2014-11-10
Age : 46
Location : Auckland

PostSubject: Re: 2015 NATIONALS - should it be a multi-day event!   Fri Jun 12, 2015 9:38 am

We are trying to keep up with our competitors and so I truly believe that 2 (even better - 3) day events are where we need to position ourselves.

My personal suggestion is the following : You can shoot both days however under 2 options.

Option #1
You shoot both days as PCP or Springer.

Option #2
You can shoot 1 day as Springer and the 2nd day as PCP

Prizes:
Grand Prize (2 combined days as either PCP or Springer)
Daily Prizes (Day 1 Springer Champ / PCP Champ then Day 2 Springer Champ / PCP Champ)

I know the major thoughts will come down to funding for prizes however, we just charge a further $10 per entrant over the 2 days. People don't mind spending slightly more if there is a bigger and more varied prize pool!
Back to top Go down
Davey
Forum Admin


Posts : 260
Join date : 2013-09-09
Location : WAG

PostSubject: Re: 2015 NATIONALS - should it be a multi-day event!   Fri Jun 12, 2015 9:42 am

Hi All,

A succinct summary of my opinions As posted elsewhere:

1) As a general concept, I don't mind the idea of a 2-day Nats.

1a) No reason we couldn't have other multi-day events in the calendar elsewhere in the year too Smile

2) I do not think it is fair to implement it this year at this late stage. Do it next year.

3) While it advantages those training for a Worlds it disadvantages those looking to use both days as qualifying opportunities for the GP (As said, I'm not sure if this actually applies to anyone. I imagine DaveJ will know).

4) WAG does not hold a vote so these are personal opinions only.

Also the following:

5) If democracy is the aim then the needs/wants of [the greater number of shooters] who are not aiming to attend a Worlds event (and would gain more value from competing in both classes - IF they say that is the case of course) should outweigh providing better practice for rep shooters.

5a) Building the skills/brands of our top shooters does not always equate to building the sport. To be frank high-level shooters are quite capable of focusing on their own development. We should be focusing on getting more people into the sport at the grass-roots level.

6) Once the decision is final I'll support whatever decision is made, regardless if I agree personally, because that is the most useful thing to do if we want FT to expand.

my 2c,
Davey
Back to top Go down
Carlostrophe



Posts : 184
Join date : 2014-11-10
Age : 46
Location : Auckland

PostSubject: Re: 2015 NATIONALS - should it be a multi-day event!   Fri Jun 12, 2015 9:52 am

By the way - only Day #2 counts for the GP
Back to top Go down
Davey
Forum Admin


Posts : 260
Join date : 2013-09-09
Location : WAG

PostSubject: Re: 2015 NATIONALS - should it be a multi-day event!   Fri Jun 12, 2015 9:53 am

Interesting, that's not what I was told.
Back to top Go down
Carlostrophe



Posts : 184
Join date : 2014-11-10
Age : 46
Location : Auckland

PostSubject: Re: 2015 NATIONALS - should it be a multi-day event!   Fri Jun 12, 2015 9:59 am

Apologies that was just continuing on what my thoughts are Smile

You could really only have 1 day as a GP as otherwise people shooting both PCP and Springer are at a disadvantage.
Back to top Go down
robcawood



Posts : 382
Join date : 2014-05-25
Age : 47
Location : Auckland

PostSubject: Re: 2015 NATIONALS - should it be a multi-day event!   Fri Jun 12, 2015 10:17 am

Quick question... Surely shooting either PCP or Springer is more inclusive for people getting into the sport than shooting both Springer and PCP...

Shooting both implies people have a Springer and a PCP with a suitable scope and suitably proficient in both to take part in the Nationals... surely only the more experienced shooters would fit into this group and not beginners?

Also currently you can shoot say Springer all year and have hopes to place well at the Nationals only to have a bunch of PCP shooters turn up on day 1 with spring guns and push you down the ladder... and the next time they shoot Springer is the Nationals the following year... is this fair on the people starting out on Springers?

_________________
NHAGC President 2017
Back to top Go down
(pink)MIST

avatar

Posts : 752
Join date : 2013-09-05
Location : Hamilton

PostSubject: Re: 2015 NATIONALS - should it be a multi-day event!   Fri Jun 12, 2015 10:27 am

How many are intending on shooting the worlds? This year it's my understanding only Natali and Hennie (and due to wftf rules they will enter as Sth Africa ) - next year and Portugal however has shown a lot of interest, with more than enough to put forward a team comprising of both pcp and springer .
A change in format overall would increase the number of shoots (competitive) for next season, giving those intending on Portugal as much competitive experience and training leading into it.

More shoots also gives more opportunities to promote club activity, always a better look when people turn up and see a larger number attending, creates more interest, which would hopefully see them returning to join in.

2 day & even 3 day events have been bantered around in the past, but have never really come to anything more than talk.
We all sound like we want it, but it never goes any further .

IMO and as said in private conversations, I think it's a good idea to have 2day events, where competitors enter in one chosen class, mimicking the worlds layout.
Maybe not for introduction this year, but something that really needs to be looked at to move the sport of ft in NZ forward and change the stale pattern we seem to have fallen into.

Hennie raised some points he has noticed with myself, and a few others seperatly, which I'm sure he can elaborate further on here for all to see, but given his role in growing the sport in SA and the speed and size of how that happened not only in numbers but in skill levels, there is definitely strengths in what he has to offer .

FT in NZ is a democratically run affair tho, which is why we are asking ALL shooters to join in this conversation. After all , for it to really work, you guys have to want and agree to it.

Regards to all
Brett

_________________
NZAFTA governor 2011 - 2016
NZAFTA competition secretary 2013, 2014
NZAFTA president 2014 -- 2016
Back to top Go down
http://nzafta.forumotion.co.nz
Davey
Forum Admin


Posts : 260
Join date : 2013-09-09
Location : WAG

PostSubject: Re: 2015 NATIONALS - should it be a multi-day event!   Fri Jun 12, 2015 10:53 am

Good point Rob, the approach I was coming from was that new shooters would find 1 day of shooting to earn a result a lot more palatable, budgetable and less tiring than having to be involved for an entire long weekend.
Back to top Go down
robcawood



Posts : 382
Join date : 2014-05-25
Age : 47
Location : Auckland

PostSubject: Re: 2015 NATIONALS - should it be a multi-day event!   Fri Jun 12, 2015 11:32 am

Davey... let's not forget it is the Nationals we are talking about, not a club shoot. We can't have the format for Nationals based on new shooters needs.

At this stage the Nationals is just another GP shoot, for those who have shot the GP series, nothing extra.

In previous years shooters maybe attended a qualifier at another club, then all got together at Nationals... everyone felt the nerves, pressure etc.

This year, a lot of the shooters have shot 6 GP rounds, so the Nationals will not present as much of a challenge as in previous years, so I think it would be good to take it to the next level and have the National Champ fight for it over 2 days...

I agree though that this might be a next year thing and voted on at the AGM rather... but lets see once we have more feedback.

Rob

_________________
NHAGC President 2017
Back to top Go down
Carlostrophe



Posts : 184
Join date : 2014-11-10
Age : 46
Location : Auckland

PostSubject: Re: 2015 NATIONALS - should it be a multi-day event!   Fri Jun 12, 2015 12:04 pm

I have to full agree with Rob. Even new shooters want to get better and appreciate to do that then they need to compete wither big boys n' girls.

Also a 2 or 3 day event is a MUST for us to become much better. We can do exactly what the UK'ians do and have a daily prizes but also a Grand combined prize for the entire event. This then means those only wanting or being able to afford a single day can still make the prizes.

In respect to daily and full weekend prizes, we simply charge more entry based upon it being 2 or 3 different days worth of shooting.
Back to top Go down
Davey
Forum Admin


Posts : 260
Join date : 2013-09-09
Location : WAG

PostSubject: Re: 2015 NATIONALS - should it be a multi-day event!   Fri Jun 12, 2015 1:35 pm

Look, as I said, I agree in principle.

But implementing it this year is foolhardy. Do it next year.
Back to top Go down
Pauly5

avatar

Posts : 95
Join date : 2013-10-25
Location : Wellington, NZ

PostSubject: Re: 2015 NATIONALS - should it be a multi-day event!   Fri Jun 12, 2015 11:38 pm

A two day event sounds good. But my view is that the more shooting the better. I would like to try competing in both pcp and springer, but springer would be my first choice, so I would opt for two days of springer and maybe wouldn't bother with pcp. Two days of shooting at the worlds was a good experience, and I learnt stuff I wouldn't have in one day. Then again i'm not an experienced shooter.

I agree with Davey on point 5a about "encouraging grass roots shooters." At the end of the day I just want to shoot, so good on all for looking to the future.
Back to top Go down
shooter1



Posts : 277
Join date : 2013-11-15
Location : Hamilton

PostSubject: Re: 2015 NATIONALS - should it be a multi-day event!   Sun Jun 14, 2015 8:45 am

First of all the idea of change with only 4 months till the Nationals is crazy and needs to be discussed at club level and voted on at the next AGM.

I thought we were trying to grow the sport not give choices like you cant use your pcp and spring gun at NZAFTA Nationals anymore you can only choose one, totally unfair for those who like to shoot both.

All this talk about the worlds and training for them etc..for who, maybe 2-3 shooters and I'm sure those people are skilled enough to do their own training and preparation .

And remember NZAFTA ONLY CONSISTS OF APPROX 25 DEDICATED F/T SHOOTERS NOT 200, AND OUT OF THOSE POSSIBLY ONLY 5 WOULD WANT TO GO TO THE WORLDS at any one time.

While I agree a 100 target National event is a good idea incorporating the spring guns in with the pcps is not, there would be nothing worse than a guy with a spring gun paired with a guy with a $5000 pcp kit giving him a real hiding at a National event.

My suggestion would be to have 2 individual National events, WAGC will even host the Spring Gun Nationals every year if need be as we are central to the majority of spring gun shooters .

The pcp Nats could remain in October as usual and the spring any time over summer (same time every year) as an xtra event just for spring guns and hopefully this would encourage more and new shooters to attend a seperate championship event.

Advertised as....The NZ National Spring Gun Championships. To a new prospective shooter what does NZAFTA mean?

This way those that want to shoot pcp and spring can... without being forced to choose one or the other!

Shooter
WAGC President


Last edited by shooter1 on Wed Jun 17, 2015 8:31 am; edited 3 times in total
Back to top Go down
gecado22



Posts : 12
Join date : 2013-10-29

PostSubject: Re: 2015 NATIONALS - should it be a multi-day event!   Sun Jun 14, 2015 8:09 pm

As a shooter who has competed in the last 3 "Nationals" shooting spring gun on Saturday and PCP on Sunday I do not support any move to deny me the opportunity to compete in both classes at the NZ National level.Some shooters have gone to a lot of expense purchasing competitive spring guns and competitive PCP's to compete in the Nationals as per the status quo.

I support the idea of a multi day contest but not at the expense of loosing my option to shoot both classes.

Shooter1's idea of separate competitions is a very sensible solution.
Back to top Go down
(pink)MIST

avatar

Posts : 752
Join date : 2013-09-05
Location : Hamilton

PostSubject: Re: 2015 NATIONALS - should it be a multi-day event!   Thu Jun 18, 2015 12:05 am

I believe that we should first gauge the number of people that are SERIOUSLY considering the trip to Portugal for the 2016 worlds, and if the numbers warrant holding team selection trials (in whichever format is used at that time) then they should be held.
A team selection process should not interfere with any other nzafta sanctioned event, and if held early enough in the year, then any shoots after that would be attended in the effort to get as much competitive training in prior to the worlds event, plus the selected competitors would have more time to work together to fundraise, or pick up any sponsorships for the group, leaving only the remainder to fund themselves.

Remember that any team selection process or event only need be attended by those with intention of shooting at the worlds Portugal, so this isnt going to put anyone out, afterall a 2-3 hour drive is far less travel to commit to than a 20-30 hour flight to a different country.

As far as the shooting season for NZ Field goes, at the moment the only "competitive" shoots are the ones that clubs host from the GP, whats stopping individual clubs from hosting something competitive of their own ? We dont see 2 or 3 day events happening in NZ, why not throw a few in the mix to spice things up?

IMO the NZ Nationals should remain in the same format, 2 days, Springer and pcp on seperate days, a winner from each class/day, and the overall national champ decided.
open entry to all bonafide financial members of nzafta affiliated clubs.
There is no reason why we cannot have other competitions throughout the year solely for one class or another, and we probably should embrace the chances to do just that. The more competitive experience one has under their belt the better, and its not just for the shooting ability, theres the physical and mental sides to gain from this as well, all which would help to advance the level and quality of shooting within NZ.
The more well attended shoots there are, the better the chances/opportunities for each club to capatalise for growth, pre event marketing/advertising may draw in other people who are interested, and a well attended event looks far more appealing than a small turnout one in the eyes of the newcomers.

Lots of room for discussion moving forward.


Brett

_________________
NZAFTA governor 2011 - 2016
NZAFTA competition secretary 2013, 2014
NZAFTA president 2014 -- 2016
Back to top Go down
http://nzafta.forumotion.co.nz
andy2shoot

avatar

Posts : 8
Join date : 2013-10-28
Location : Tauranga

PostSubject: Re: 2015 NATIONALS - should it be a multi-day event!   Sun Jun 28, 2015 6:14 pm

X2
(pink)MIST wrote:
I believe that we should first gauge the number of people that are SERIOUSLY considering the trip to Portugal for the 2016 worlds, and if the numbers warrant holding team selection trials (in whichever format is used at that time) then they should be held.
A team selection process should not interfere with any other nzafta sanctioned event, and if held early enough in the year, then any shoots after that would be attended in the effort to get as much competitive training in prior to the worlds event, plus the selected competitors would have more time to work together to fundraise,  or pick up any sponsorships for the group, leaving only the remainder to fund themselves.

Remember that any team selection process or event only need be attended by those with intention of shooting at the worlds Portugal, so this isnt going to put anyone out, afterall a 2-3 hour drive is far less travel to commit to than a 20-30 hour flight to a different country.

As far as the shooting season for NZ Field goes, at the moment the only "competitive" shoots are the ones that clubs host from the GP, whats stopping individual clubs from hosting something competitive of their own ? We dont see 2 or 3 day events happening in NZ, why not throw a few in the mix to spice things up?

IMO the NZ Nationals should remain in the same format, 2 days, Springer and pcp on seperate days, a winner from each class/day, and the overall national champ decided.
open entry to all bonafide financial members of nzafta affiliated clubs.
There is no reason why we cannot have other competitions throughout the year solely for one class or another, and we probably should embrace the chances to do just that. The more competitive experience one has under their belt the better, and its not just for the shooting ability, theres the physical and mental sides to gain from this as well, all which would help to advance the level and quality of shooting within NZ.
The more well attended shoots there are, the better the chances/opportunities for each club to capatalise for growth, pre event marketing/advertising may draw in other people who are interested, and a well attended event looks far more appealing than a small turnout one in the eyes of the newcomers.

Lots of room for discussion moving forward.


Brett
Back to top Go down
shooter1



Posts : 277
Join date : 2013-11-15
Location : Hamilton

PostSubject: Re: 2015 NATIONALS - should it be a multi-day event!   Sun Jun 28, 2015 7:39 pm

Andy what does this mean!

Quote is same as Brett wrote?

Shooter
Back to top Go down
andy2shoot

avatar

Posts : 8
Join date : 2013-10-28
Location : Tauranga

PostSubject: Re: 2015 NATIONALS - should it be a multi-day event!   Sun Jun 28, 2015 8:11 pm

shooter1 wrote:
Andy what does this mean!

Quote is same as Brett wrote?

Shooter
It means that I agree with not making any changes to the Nationals at present as Brett said. As it stands and if other clubs wish to hold more events for there training is cool and if I can i will attend a few. Any changes that may affects our club or all of our clubs should be done at the AGM with voting. As for the 3 day events suggested, not sure if I for one would be interested as time off work cost ect would come into effect. The present Nationals and as you and Brian have said I for one would be against change of it this year and think it does not need changing.
Note
Just my opinion and certainly not set in concrete.
Back to top Go down
shooter1



Posts : 277
Join date : 2013-11-15
Location : Hamilton

PostSubject: Re: 2015 NATIONALS - should it be a multi-day event!   Sun Jun 28, 2015 9:04 pm

Fair comment mate!
Back to top Go down
robcawood



Posts : 382
Join date : 2014-05-25
Age : 47
Location : Auckland

PostSubject: Re: 2015 NATIONALS - should it be a multi-day event!   Tue Jun 30, 2015 8:27 pm

Ok then... it seems like there is no need for a vote, so this can be parked.

If anyone feels like tabling this to be voted on at the AGM then go for it.

_________________
NHAGC President 2017
Back to top Go down
Carlostrophe



Posts : 184
Join date : 2014-11-10
Age : 46
Location : Auckland

PostSubject: Re: 2015 NATIONALS - should it be a multi-day event!   Tue Jun 30, 2015 8:37 pm

Ok so let's leave all as is for this year however, I think we all need to come up with thoughts prior to the AGM in respect to changes / additions for next years Nationals. I have a plan of attack that I recently posted which ultimately keeps all parties happy but also offers a huge amount of encouragement t to those that do want to be more involved with several say events and especially when focussing on the Worlds and the likes.
Back to top Go down
Dajo



Posts : 540
Join date : 2013-11-15
Location : New Zealand

PostSubject: Re: 2015 NATIONALS - should it be a multi-day event!   Mon Jul 13, 2015 5:31 pm

Its been an interesting thread this one, over 500 views but not too much comment so far.

I think the Nationals should have some changes but there are a few things which should remain untouched, they are........

1/. Shooters should be allowed to shoot springer and PCP at the Nationals. It is the shooters choice and we keep the four classes as is currently the case.
2/. That the labour week end date stays for each Nationals Finals and that it remain a two day event.

There have been suggestions of two and three day shoots or two shoots per day which may well be acceptable but if this happens with the Nationals, when exactly is the AGM to be held ? My suggestion is that we have the Spring gun Champs on day one as per normal and the AGM directly following that. Unfinished business could then be transferred to the second day after the PCP champs.

Any longer than the two day event means extra time off work which may or may not suit and of course the extra expense which for those that travel and stay in motels etc are very considerable.

I see the main event for those wishing to get in shape for international shooting to be the Grand Prix Series. This has gone well this year and it's a bit unfortunate that we have the finals for this event coincident with the National Finals.

I should say that it was intended to have the National Spring Champs on Saturday and the GP Series Spring final along with the National and GP PCP finals on the Sunday. Obviously, there will be changes next year and it's only this year that will be different.

In the main though, I think the Nationals should stay as is, however, the Grand Prix Series is another subject which will get covered in a different post.

DaveJ.
Back to top Go down
 
2015 NATIONALS - should it be a multi-day event!
View previous topic View next topic Back to top 
Page 1 of 1
 Similar topics
-
» 2015 Street Machine Nationals, Wagga Wagga - August 15 & 16 (Not the Summer Nats).
» Full Throttle S’loonshine Distillery 2nd Annual Custom Car S
» 2015 Chili Bowl Nationals
» Australian Panel Van Nationals 2015 - 40th Anniversary Bathurst!
» Atlantic Nationals 2015

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
 :: Clubs and Events Calendar-
Jump to: